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E38 | Return of the Resilient Performance Podcast


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Welcome back to the Resilient Performance Podcast! Today, we wanted to introduce some of the changes that will be taking place on the podcast. Historically, we have interviewed people from a variety of fields.  We do this to try and make the themes a little more global and while we don’t want to change this, we still want this podcast and the content to transcend what we’re doing as sports rehabilitation performance professionals.

We’re going to increase the podcast releases to a more weekly format where we have more of an informal educational platform where we have round table discussions, present our own case studies, and even talk about things that we are working on with our athletes.

I would also like to introduce my partners and contributors to the podcast, Trevor Rappa, and Greg Spatz. We appreciate you taking the time to listen and we ask that you stay involved, ask questions, and leave a review on iTunes!

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Episode Transcription:

Doug: [00:00:00] All right, welcome to the Resilient Performance Podcast. This is Doug Kechijian here. I just wanted to introduce some changes that we’re going to be making for the upcoming season. Historically we’ve interviewed people from a variety of fields, not just in sports rehabilitation and sports performance, to try and make the themes a little bit more global.
And while we don’t want to change that, we still want this to this podcast and the content to transcend what we’re doing as a sports rehabilitation performance professionals. We’ve also gotten much feedback from people saying that they would like a little bit more of the micro-level stuff. So how do we apply some of this information?

What do we do when we work with athletes? Because it’s great to have a bunch of abstract ideas and theories, but how do we make that actionable. So while we still want this to be kind of a broad podcast where people from a variety of disciplines and fields can get some useful information, we’re going to increase the frequency with which we release episodes so that we still want to have the traditional, you know, question and guess format, where it’s going to be a little more global.
But we want to release the podcast on a more weekly basis so that in the weeks where we don’t have a guest in a more traditional—podcast format. We want to have more of an informal educational platform where we talk with, you know, have round table discussions, present our case studies, and even just things that we’re kind of working on and just to try to tease out how to make our athletes better.

And again, just try to provide like an informal educational platform where people will get the big picture ideas, but also how to apply some of that information. So with that, I’ll, I’ll introduce my partners, Greg spats and Trevor wrapper and let them kind of introduce what it is that they’re going to be contributing to the podcast.

So I guess we’ll start with Trevor.

Trevor: [00:02:10] Yeah, I’m Trevor Rappa, and you know, I think one of the reasons we wanted to change up the format a little bit is because of the benefit that we had with our clinical and being with somebody whom we can kind of always ask questions through and get an idea of, of what they’re doing on a day to day basis.

I helped offer to learn. So as much as we love theory and we love learning more about this kind of global concept, ultimately, what makes somebody successful as a practitioner is what they do on a day to day basis with their actual clients. So that’s kind of, we wanted to go a little bit more in that route of having discussions between the three of us.

Like Doug, it was said about patients that we see but also got on other professionals, coaches and clinicians, to actually kind of go through case studies and talk about things that they do. Because we’ve always tried to be as authentic and as transparent as we can be. Because I think that’s one of the best ways to learn is to see what you’re doing on a day to day basis.

Doug: [00:02:57] Yeah. Then, Greg, you have anything to add about your particular piece and things that you know you want to add, or we’re going to act collectively compared to what we did in the past.

Greg: [00:03:08] No, I mean I think Trevor kind of hit the nail on the head there. We want to add in up a few different types of segments, a few different types of pieces of content where we’re bringing in other people having round table discussions.
And I think the cases are going to be fun to do. Cause I know, like in my head, I’ll do case studies throughout the week, just what do I want to do next? What do I, what did I do that I should have done differently?

Greg: [00:03:28] I think it’s just going to be fun to have it be bounced off of you guys and talk about a patient that’s progressing postop or is more towards a performance end of things. And how do we get them ready for their sport more so than sort of the clinical staff? But, besides case studies, and I think we’re going to bring on a different type of guests to where we’ll bring on other people who are, who are performing, you know, day to day with, with clients, with athletes, and hear about what they do and ask them to bring.

Their case studies, bring their videos of, you know, obviously confidentiality. If that’s needed to be protected, then whatever they have to do. But hopefully, they could bring in some videos to demonstrate things of what they’ve done with their patients or their clients and athletes. And I think that’s probably going to be the best way that we all learn.

Like Jennifer said, and we were able to, you know, have some great clinics, and we’ve learned so much from other professionals just through asking questions and being interested. So, I know we’re welcoming questions from anybody. I think it’s going to be good to have. We might take one question and talk about it for a half-hour.

We don’t know. It could be an entire episode based on one question. So that could be. That could be fun. And then, you know, Doug, you had already mentioned about bringing on PT students and trying to make it more of a, you know, how do the students turn into the clinician progression? I think that’s going to be interesting to do, and I think we have one that’ll probably be lined up soon.
So that’s exciting.

Trevor: [00:04:49] I think another excellent, good point. Sorry. You know, like we’re in a very fortunate situation that we had that there’s three of us and we can always, you know, in like a judgment-free zone, ask each other questions without the kind of being berated. Like, which is what happens when you go online, and you try to ask a question on the, you know, a PT forum.
If you’re kind of do a different methodology than the personal interest, your question, you get ripped apart and shredded. So it kind of creates this fear of not wanting to ask questions, and that’s not what. You know we’re going to be doing with this podcast, and I think getting other clinicians to ask questions about their cases, and just, you can get another opinion.

I’m like, you know, what would you do if somebody is missing XYZ or we want to improve this quality of like, what’s just some of the strategies you would do? I remember, like one of the things he told me that has always stuck with me was like, everything works.

So just because it’s not what we would do. It’s always fun to ask other people, like, what would you do in that situation? Cause their technique would work just as good as ours is or, or vice versa. But it’s just right to be able to have like an actual open dialogue about helping clients not about feeding our ego without how we answer the question.

Doug: [00:05:58] Yeah, a hundred percent and like part of the problems with a lot of the internet platforms is that they don’t allow for discussion. You’re limited with characters, and sometimes even when you read something, you can’t gauge somebody’s tone or demeanor. So we want to make this more interactive and while we kind of has our ideas for.

What content we think is relevant and exciting. We also want the content to be driven by the audience. So to Greg’s point, we’re going to be soliciting questions from listeners and audience members. We’re going to be reaching out to different, you know, organizations, whether it’s like physical therapy programs, strength conditioning staff, and even, you know, sports organizations.
And just like having these conversations with them and letting, letting listeners dictate the content. Because, you know, sometimes like we don’t always ask the right questions and. This is also equally informative for us, where like people are asking questions that we’re not thinking about, and if we don’t have the answer, it forces us to get better too.

So we, you know, I personally, as you guys know, I’m very tech inept, and you know, one of the things that I’ve benefited from over the last six weeks, one of the few things is that you know, you realize that there are platforms that are much more conducive to sharing information with a broader audience, including the one that we’re on now.

Zoom. So, for example, you know, if somebody asks us a question about, Hey, like what would you do with this athlete? Instead of talking through it, which we’re still going to do now, we can screen share, and we can actually like look at athletes and do movement analysis. And so we’re going to offer, you know, the video platform and the audio platform.

And depending on what’s convenient for you, you’ll have access to both. But I think that you know, we want to kind of step things up technologically to just to allow again, for, for just better dialogue all around. So I didn’t, you guys want to add anything to that.

Greg: [00:07:37] I did have something that I wanted to say I forgot to. So engaging. I was just sort of locked into those eyes. No, I can’t think of any.

Doug: [00:07:45] Yeah

Trevor: [00:07:45] yeah, that’s true. We want to make this like as positive of an experience for the, for the listeners and stuff for the viewers as we can. So we want feedback, we want questions, we want to know, like what are the things that, that you guys want to learn?

Cause like Doug said like there are so many times that somebody asks this question or like, you know, patients ask the question, I’m like, I never thought about that. And you got to come up with an answer kind of on the spot. But it’d be nice to be able to kind of spend time, like the look, figuring things out for ourselves because you know, we get better by.

You are getting by answering questions and asking questions ourselves. So, you know, I’m looking forward to just that process of seeing like what is, what are some of the things that other people are thinking about? Because it’s very easy to kind of get stuck in your own lane and not be able to have an idea of kind of what else is going on around you and being more open.

Having dialogue and discussion and asking questions is, is a great way to get better at that.

Greg: [00:08:38] Yeah, that’s what I was going to bring up was, you know, you might get stuck in your little bubble. Like if I’m seeing all these baseball athletes make it stuck in baseball.

Greg: [00:08:47] And I’m just rubbing elbows and I’m just thinking about baseball all the time.
Whereas like, you know, going to you guys who want more football or tennis or whatever sort of military background where you don’t have the, like, you’re not almost like so pigeonholed by baseball itself that you think of something that I don’t, I didn’t think of because I’m so focused on what’s already there, what’s already in baseball versus like, while in track and field I do this.
So have you thought about doing that? And it’s like, no, it’s. Yeah, you absolutely should do that. so I think that’s going to be cool to hear from different people and talking about different things and kind of kind of goes back to what all the episodes Doug’s already done on his own, where you’re asking people from, you know, the music or theater world about how to be excellent at what they do and, and, and how to improve performance, you know, bullying and then also like X’s and O’s wise.
And. you’ve had so many great guests on that, and hopefully we can get some of them to come back and kind of expand on some things. But, I think that kind of, you know, from the macro level down to the micro, I think it’ll be cool to see how it all, all feeds, feeds into each other. And, you know, one person talking about  something in a different field is going to help us, you know, clinically with our patients.

And that’s, I think that’s the focus here. We don’t want to keep things. Esoteric and, and complex or, you know, over overcomplicate things. We want to keep the complexity, make it applicable, change, change, something that’s too, too complex or is over complicated and turn it into something that we can use clinically.

Because everything somebody might talk about, it’s important, but it’s like, okay, how does that change what I do tomorrow with XYZ patient?

Doug: [00:10:22] The more people you talk to from different fields, you more, you realize that everyone’s trying to kind of solve the same problems and certain certain themes emerge.
And we’re going to make a clear delineation between like these are the episodes that are really more for the strength conditioning coach or the sports rehabilitation professional. These are the ones that are a little bit broader so that you know, the, the expectations are clear. But one thing that we’ve gotten feedback on is.

We do kind of these broader podcasts, which we think are still important. Even if we’re talking about like the sports performance world, like everybody thinks that things like load management and graded exposure are important. Or if it’s like desensitization when it comes to treating a pain patient and like these terms, you know, we all accept them as being like, these are legitimate, but no one, you know, especially with a lot of the forums, they’re not conducive to like, well, what does load management actually means?

So I was like in the past, you know, I haven’t asked PE coaches specifically, like, what do you do on. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, we’re going to have episodes where we actually address that. So we get beyond the abstracts. And again, it’s not like we’re not bringing on guests that we’re saying this is the best way of doing something, including what we’re doing.
But I think that the more we expose audience members and even ourselves to different ways of doing things. That’s the only way that we learn. And I think that like the reason that we kind of came around to this format is that our mentors have been really transparent with us. And that’s like the only way to learn, right?

It’s just that apprenticeship model. And now through technology we can connect to a lot more people and have a lot more mentors, and we’re all basically apprentice to that guest that’s on there. And you know, the nice thing about. Running your own podcast is that you can be the gatekeepers. So we’re going to keep things, you know, civilized and cordial.

We’re not gonna allow any trolls. And it’s, I think, Trevor, you made the point that like, we want to be able to ask a question and not get paraded. It can be a lot harder to do that, you know, on Twitter. But that’s not going to be the case here because first of all, we screen our guests. And second of all, if someone’s acting like a jerk, you know, we’re just going to press the mute.

Greg: [00:12:17] first rule of thumb, you have to be a good person, right?

Doug: [00:12:20] there we go. Absolutely. And I think that the reality is like even when you see people arguing on social media. They, most of them are good people and if you’ve got them in the same room, the discussion would be a lot different. It’s just that the platform isn’t always conducive to having a discussion because you don’t often feel the need to defend yourself.

And then when you say something, someone kind of, you know, like kind of champions to the other side and it becomes like, it’s almost like you’re on the playground and you really didn’t mean to get into a fight. But then all these other people are like. You guys should fight, fight, fight, fight, and that kind of spirals out of control.

So, you know, we’re going to be like the, the AIDS in the playground and try to get down to, you know, what are the questions that really matter, but do it in a way where no one’s jumping off the swing set and doing macho man elbows onto somebody else. That’s perfect.

Greg: [00:13:06] That’s right. Yeah. So, and we’re doing this, we’re starting this during this pandemic, right?

So we’ve been sort of locked up for seven weeks or so. getting back into some of the brick and mortar in-person therapy as it’s sort of being regulated, you know, regulations are being removed and we’re able to see people  based on our comfort and their comfort. What are some other things that you guys have done during the pandemic at home that that is new for us, or, you know, is, are things that we want to start, start doing more of.

Trevor: [00:13:37] I mean, I would say like for myself, just by, you know, having such a lightened caseload and is having more time in general, I’ve spent way more time just reading different books and kind of getting back into my own education.

Which is hard to do when you’re, you know, busy like we are in just seeing patients. You kind of a, you know, seeing patients still is, feeds into that staying in your own bubble more because you’re just doing the same thing kind of over and over in terms of seeing patients without. Kind of taking a step back and trying to fill your holes a little bit.

So I’ve done a lot more of, you know, reading some different biomechanics textbooks and things like that. Trying to just improve my understanding of a lot of things that I continually have questions on.

Doug: [00:14:16] Yeah.

Greg: [00:14:17] You’re working on like your own little project to, for like change of direction stuff, hopefully by the end of the year.

Trevor: [00:14:23] Yep. That’s the goal.

Doug: [00:14:26] Yeah. I think like, like forever said, just devouring con ed, which is something that, you know, when you’re doing the. Hours upon hours of patient treatment is much harder to do. And then on top of the documentation of the administrative responsibilities, so between that and you know, like I never before this for, it’s been a long time.

I really had time to actually talk to people. It’s always text messaging and emails and, you know, obviously this is not a replacement for talking to somebody in person, but I’ve actually had a lot more just conversations with people, whether it’s on the phone or even on, like on zoom or Skype. and it’s nice to, to talk to people.

It’s obviously, you forget that. Like, yes, it’s nice to have a very quick and accessible means of communication, but something is lost with that, that efficiency. So a lot more of those kinds of conversations, which is kind of the goal of what we’re trying to do going forward. And then beyond that, you know, working on more big picture stuff as an individual and as a company, right?
So like we’re starting to get into some digital education. We’re working on kind of like an online or digital therapeutic platform. That’s kind of like a triage or a screening filter for physical therapy and musculoskeletal pain. These are things that you just, you can’t do when you’re bogged down with the day to day patient treatment.

So I think, you know, like everybody else, we all struggle with like, we love what we do. We also want to work on bigger picture, broader initiatives, and how do we balance that? And I would say like before. Everything with this coven, we, we’ve been unbalanced from the standpoint of like, we were just totally hyperfocused on patient treatment because it brings income in and it’s hard to walk away from that.

And now we don’t really have a choice but to do other things. And there’s going to be a point pretty soon where we have to go back to the brick and mortar, but at least we’ll have been exposed to both extremes and now we can try to figure out a better, sliding scale or balance for ourselves.  Definitely.

Trevor: [00:16:08] I think that that point of balance is huge. Doug. Sorry, go ahead, Greg.

Greg: [00:16:13] You know, that’s, that’s always been, it’s been really hard for me to balance. I feel like I’m always thinking about stuff that we are doing or could be doing or should be, you know, whatever it is or have done. And I’m like always working or always on as opposed to, you know, making the time to, to do other things or like, you know, we, I’ve been video chatting with like family and friends, like on a weekly basis and it’s like, Oh wow.

This has been here forever and we haven’t done it ever. And you know, I might not see these people for months if, you know, they live in other States and it’s like I’m seeing them every week and it’s not going to be like part of part of life, which is cool. And it definitely sort of, you have to shift gears and, and, go in and out of work mode, which I like.

I need to be better at that for sure. yeah, I mean, in the first like five weeks or four weeks of the pandemic, I was working on our online course and just setting up all the webpages for that and getting all the videos prep for that. And. That was a lot of time and very time consuming. It was almost like I felt like I had to be doing that because I was home and like doing nothing besides that.
and, but I’m glad I did it because that’s like you said, Doug, like we’ve been, we’ve been working on this thing for, I think you, you’re recording your video in 2018 I think in December, I was like two years something we’ve, we’ve had sitting there for a long time and then it was just a matter of like, alright, we gotta get this thing done.  You know, we had all the video recorded and we just needed to have it all actually completely done and put in place for the end user to access it. So that’s been awesome that we released that. We’ve had some pretty good feedback from people, I think, and hopefully we’ll get some more. But’s, that’s our foundations course.

And I don’t know if you guys want to talk about that at all or you don’t have to, but

Doug: [00:17:59] yeah. You know, it’s, it’s the point is like, I don’t even know when that would have gotten finished if this, this pandemic thing hadn’t, hadn’t have happened because, you know, we, we had it on the shelf, but like, the editing was time consuming and you did a lot of the work for that.

You know, we’ve gotten some good feedback from coaches, coaches even, who were mentors. To us that we respect a lot. So I think that it’s applicable to novice coaches and to even higher level coaches because it’s really just like taking the basics and then how do you scale the basics? Cause everything comes down to basics anyway in fundamentals, you know, it’s kind of like pick and roll in basketball, right?

Like that you, if you execute that properly, it’s really hard to stop. And I’ve been in the NBA and like ultimately it’s about creating space and creating match-ups. And there’s only so many ways to do that. And just, but how do you, you know, apply those basics and connect those dots? But I think,

Greg: [00:18:47] yeah, that’d do it.

Doug: [00:18:48] Yeah.

Greg: [00:18:49] It might not be sexy either, which is like a lot of the stuff we do is like 90% of the stuff we do is a lot of the same things in there. They’re quote unquote basic, but they’re more just like foundational things that. Everybody needs to be able to do these things, to do, to, you know, meet, reach their goals.

And it’s like, okay, that’s, that’s where we started with this course is like, this is the foundation and we’re going to have these sort of like bounce off, you know, specialized modules after that. But, definitely like. Mastering these basics are like, I still need to be going through our own course and doing these things for myself.

Trevor: [00:19:23] cause I think everybody talks about, you know, everybody says at least that like, you know, the fundamentals are always key. And yet we’ve got to go back to your fundamentals and always know the basics and stuff, but they’re rarely ever kind of laid out. And. And described in like, what does that actually look like?

And us as coaches and clinicians, it’s like the only thing that we are consistently really, you know, using to assess is our eyes. And I think that’s one of the things that we wanted to show with this course is like, what does that look like? Cause that, that, that’s always a question of mine that I’ve had.

Like ever since I’ve been coaching athletes or, or in PT school it’s like, okay, like this is bad. Well, okay, that’s fine. But like what does that look like? So we try to show what, what is good, you know, quote unquote good cause it’s relative. What does a good squat look like? What does a good dead lift? What does a good split-squat, what’s good pushup is all the basic, basic things that we have to do as humans.

It’s like what does it actually look like? And I think that is ultimately. The foundation of where we have to start either as a coach or as a clinician, is just knowing what are we starting at, what are we looking for? And then we can coach from there.

Greg: [00:20:20] And I never even remember, like as a student thinking man, like all these top notch professionals, they must be doing some of the craziest stuff with their clients that like, I need to go.
Takes years and years of this crazy educational sort of system to actually be able to help anybody at all, and it’s really not that different when you people actually share what they’re doing. It’s like, Oh, that’s okay. Yeah, I can do that too. That was definitely know something that. I know, I know. I learned from Alan.

It’s like, it’s not always some crazy answer. Sometimes people just need to be able to extend their hip a little bit more and then things get better. And you know, that just sort of snowballs into like putting layers onto it. And then, and then when you do get these complex patients, you’ve, you’ve already got the low hanging fruit and it’s like, okay, now I need to dig deeper into other things I’m not currently doing or going to say that.

Doug: [00:21:05] Yeah, and I think that like one of the things that we’re going to be unapologetic about is that we do the same things with a lot of people, and we’re going to bring on guests where you’re going to be like, yeah, these guys are all kind of saying the same thing. And I think that like right now, we live in a time where, you know, we celebrate novelty for the sake of novelty, but like there’s a reason why certain things.

You know, tradition, it doesn’t always mean that something is good, but like there’s a reason why I like the way to develop athletes historically has been like, you do some kind of, you know, strength training. You sprint and you, and you jump, and then it’s like, it’s a recipe, you know, because there’s so many ways to make pizza, but some pizza tastes better than others, even though they’re all using tomato sauce and spices and dough and cheese.

But it’s like, how do you put those pieces together? So those basic building blocks are pretty much the same. it’s just how do you, how do you apply it for the athlete at hand? And, but again, like we’re not trying to be novel for the sake of being novel. But one thing, cause Trevor kind of sparked this when we talking about like what some of these projects are helpful for doing.

I know that like, you know, hosting the first two seasons of the podcast for me, when you have to ask people questions and be prepared and not sound like an idiot online, it forces you to think about things more clearly because you know, you’re, you’re the one asking the questions right? And you, you like.

You can only get so much out of a guest if you’re not prepared. What releasing some of these products has helped me with, and I think I could speak for all you guys, is like sometimes you just get in the habit of treating or doing things and you rely on your intuition. But you know that that can work a lot of the time.

But being able to like the fact that we wrote everything out, like we had, you know, we had movement categories and yes, like they’re arbitrary, but within each category we have progressions of like all these exercises. Cause sometimes I’ll be stumped and I’ll be like, you know, what am I supposed to. Do what this person, and it’s like, mom, just look at the list that I created.
Oh yeah. Like I can do that. But if you don’t have it written out and you don’t have it systematized, now you’re relying on intuition all the time. So like systematizing things has helped us, I think, keep ourselves honest. And you don’t want to be robotic and have to always. You know, rely on like looking at a piece of paper to do something.

But it is helpful because we all, we’re all human and we all kind of just forget stuff and get stumped. So that’s kind of the idea is I think going forward, like we want to systematize everything that we do, not just like the strength training, not just to change the direction work and the speed work and the conditioning, but even what we’re doing as a, as a business and hoping to just share that with, with everybody else really, because we know that if we share, then other people will share it.

It’s going to make us better. So there’s a selfish motive behind it, behind it too. Yeah. I think going  through that writing process and like the creative process and putting your thoughts to paper to the computer really is as like, even if we didn’t release the course, just the process of the three of us kind of going through and creating that process, or sorry, going through the process of creating the course together is, is immensely beneficial.

It’s like even if you’re not creating a product, you’re trying to release anything. Just, you know, kind of having one goal in mind and having questions that you’re trying to answer and actually not just thinking about them, but. Going through the process of creating it and putting it down is, I mean, it’s been so helpful for, for all of us.

Greg: [00:24:08] Definitely.

Doug: [00:24:10] Alright. Well, I think, that’s a pretty good introduction and we want to get going with the, with the guests and the content in future episodes. I mean, before, any parting shots where you guys, before we, wrap it up.

Greg: [00:24:22]I am definitely excited to get people engaged, get some questions, topics, get some, some different people on here. Get groups of people on here to do it all together. And you know, it’d be fun to get some, some friends and just bounce ideas off each other.

Doug: [00:24:35] Yeah. We’re limited by our zoom membership, right?
So whatever we have, or it’s 20 feet, I think that’s where we gotta come to

Greg: [00:24:42] 101 hundred so we can get maybe seven more of you. 97 more. Yeah. We’ll have some links in the show notes too. You know, like to the course. I dunno if, if anybody’s interested in signing up for our mailing list, cause that’s how we usually will like announce things or when we release things, we’ll send an email blast.

Everybody, it’s probably, it’s also on our social media. So it’s like you could pick whichever, whichever route you like to follow people on and hear from them. Cause it’s probably redundant to get on all of them.
Doug: [00:25:12] you’re welcome to if you’d like, we’ll include a link, In all the show notes where people can submit questions specifically for the podcast and it kind of gets consolidated into one place.

And you know, we want that to drive a lot of our content. So the more active the the audience is, the more active we’re going to be. And, you know, bring, bring episodes to everybody. Yeah.

Trevor: [00:25:31] Yeah. I would say ask questions. Please, please, please ask questions. That is exactly what we’re trying to take. The podcast is trying to help the listeners and help ourselves at the same time, but that ultimately starts with us asking questions and whoever’s listening, asking questions too.

So thank you for taking the time to listen.